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Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so.

45 replies on 4 pages. Most recent reply: Apr 2, 2008 6:25 PM by Axcell Van

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Anand B N

Posts: 4
Nickname: anandbn
Registered: Aug, 2002

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Aug 27, 2003 3:15 PM
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Looks like the topic is gaining heat by the hour. Anyway I guess the grass is green on the otherside and one man's food is another man's poison. I think it's perfectly understandble for any american IT worker to feel insecure. I think the rule of the day is outsourcing and us having such huge emotional/intellectual posts is not going to change that.
So it IT the reason for all this. I thik someone pointed out that in the 60s the textile business flourished in the US. Today I think 95% of the garments bought in America and Europe are manufactured in the 3rd world countries like Bangaldesh, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Pakistan. I'm sure a skilled american worker in the 60s would have felt the same isecuriy that many IT workers today feel.
Secondly is the outsourcing thing affecting only american IT world. No there were a whole lot of Wanting_to_immigrate Indians that are also realizing the pinch. So I think it's not racist thing. But in the name of Global economy outsourcing is the best thing that is happening in today's world. It's just not the US it's all over. BMW is setting up a car plant in India soon, Volksvagon is also in the talks, Volvo exports buses manufactured in India, Hyundai has a flourishing business in India, Mercedes Benz is manufacturing in India, Ford is in India and the erstwhile General Motor's Chevrolet is beginning to look at India. I think the corporate heads of these companies can't be foolish enough to look at a 3rd world country for cutting costs.

However I think the original post did have some harsh racists remarks like "barely english speaking", "Cheap labour workers"..etc which I think are not very welcome. The reason today that outsourcing to India is big-time is because
1. We speak good English if not better than an average american.
2. Our school and graduate educational systems are well rooted that we are as skilled as any other person elsewhere.
3. Being a 3rd world country and developing nation, and our current economy, we are able to offer services at a lower rate than what it would in America.

Last but not the least, most of the stuff that you live with today are hardly manufactured in USA. Nike manufatures shoes for less that $3 in Thailand and sells them for over $50 here.
Every PC made and used in USA is either made in China or assembled in Mexico.

So does a skilled worker have a place and job today. I think the answer is always "YES".

Alex Peake

Posts: 13
Nickname: alexpeake
Registered: Jul, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Aug 27, 2003 8:51 PM
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Can the Tech-Job Drain Be Stopped?

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/22151.html

Sandeep Pathak

Posts: 1
Nickname: pathakss
Registered: Aug, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Aug 28, 2003 6:54 AM
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While wearing a dress made in Puerto Rico and shoes made in Malaysia. Typing furiously on her keyboard assembled in Dominican Republic and staring blankly at the monitor made in S. Korea, with her PC assembled with most components from Taiwan and Phillipines, Sue says.... "Dont send jobs to India".

HA!

So Sue is very comfortable buying EVERYTHING made outside the USofA BUT has a problem w/ software "Made in India". Why? Coz now it affects HER job! It dont matter for the other things does it? Coz some bubba in the midwest lost his job when the textile/apparel/steel/electronics jobs went overseas. Now its the white-collar white-male east/west coast affluent campaign-contributors that are losing their jobs and suddenly its an issue. Its just evolution of economics. Yes, it sucks and go tell that to the guy who used to work at Zenith or some steel factory in Pittsburgh.

So not all offsource companies are upto the "expert" mark. Yeah, remember the Japanese cars of yesteryears. Detroit use to laugh at those dinky cars. Well, not anymore. Same with China. Isnt Huawei (pardon my spelling) from China coming out with low-end switches and routers? What about PC powerhouses like Asus from Taiwan?

In time, the Indian companies will evolve. They have to else they will in turn lose out to cheaper counterparts from say, Bangladesh, Russia etc.

So software is becoming a commodity and is going the textile route. I think the high-level architectural work will still stay in the US for a long time. So you will always see new products/startups. Its just that their development will most likely be in India in the coming years.

Steve Holden

Posts: 42
Nickname: holdenweb
Registered: Apr, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Aug 29, 2003 12:27 PM
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Well, this blog was another attempt to address the issue I raised in How Much Profit is Enough (http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=5870) some time ago, though it focuses on a slightly different aspect of the problem.

It's unfortunate that so much focus is placed in the USA and similar economies on the cost of acquisition of software rather than the cost of ownership. The continual insistence on the cheapest possible price makes the subsequent support costs prohibitive. But it will be difficult to people take these broader goals into account when they make purchasing decisions, since most of them want precisely one thing: the lowest possible short-term bottom-line.

You get what you pay for, and you've already paid for (or failed to pay for) outsourcing, so welcome to the brave new world.

a aa

Posts: 1
Nickname: mmsloboda
Registered: Aug, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Aug 29, 2003 10:43 PM
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Sue,
Economics 101: Comparative advantage. If your recommendations were followed it would be at the expense of the US economy. http://www.systemics.com/docs/ricardo/david.html

Toni Chester

Posts: 2
Nickname: italianfox
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Sep 1, 2003 9:51 PM
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Sue...

Thank you for sharing your experience. I only wish more companies had the foresight to keep their workforce at home. Much of what you stated has been the experience of IT Professionals throughout the country. Many of us have had to rewrite the code written by our foreign counterparts or had to break down the tasks to such minute detail that it was not worth the cost/effort in the long run.

As for the differences and difficulties in support issues, I can only say AMEN. I'm not sure many consumers realize that the individual on the other end of the email / phone are half way around the world. Time differences only impede the ability to resolve issues in a timely fashion. Waiting days to have a problem addressed / resolved is unacceptable. I guess Customer Satisfaction is only a concept of the time passed.

Of course, your comments regarding training our replacements has only one problem. If we bail from the job, we may violate the right to receive unemployment compensation. Personally, I just remained on the job and ignored the person until my last day. Oops didn't get the information you required.. oh well, it's a little late now. After all, I had to pick up the ball and run with it with no training, why can't he?

Thanks for supporting our people. We need more companies who think with their heads, not their purses. But then again, that implies that the individuals who lead major corporations have any sense of reality, let alone any brain function.

Toni Chester

Posts: 2
Nickname: italianfox
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Sep 1, 2003 10:02 PM
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I do have a few comments to your response...

<i>However I think the original post did have some harsh racists remarks like "barely english speaking", "Cheap labour workers"..etc which I think are not very welcome. The reason today that outsourcing to India is big-time is because
1. We speak good English if not better than an average american.</i>

If the English is so "Good", then why are companies in the United States hiring Americans to go over to India to teach the English language to your people? Also, if you are so proud of your heritage, why are these same people teaching North American dialect and American phrases to your folks? Also, why are companies having persons in call centers respond with American sounding names rather than their real identities? Seems like something is being covered up.

On another note, not all persons from India speak or comprehend the English language well.

<i>2. Our school and graduate educational systems are well rooted that we are as skilled as any other person elsewhere.</i>

One question... Then why are so many of your people coming to the United States to engage in our educational system?

<i>3. Being a 3rd world country and developing nation, and our current economy, we are able to offer services at a lower rate than what it would in America</i>

Offering services at a lower rate does not imply that the services are of the same quality. This just states that the services are cheaper, nothing more.


Also, please comment on why companies in India will not give the same opportunity to American workers as American companies have provided for Indian workers both on and off shore?

Bottom line is.. the worker with the expertise, experience and quality deliverable should be the prospect for the job, which is not the case here.

AJ

Posts: 6
Nickname: jharkhandi
Registered: Aug, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Sep 2, 2003 10:13 AM
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Intelligent Toni - very intelligent.

Do you know America spends highest amount of money for job training (no doubts - with high school drop outs - what else would you expect?), still you could not create a dedicated work-force!!!

Well about English being so good and not so good in India - let me make it straight - English is a language of foreign origin for Indians - still if we could beat you - man...

On the contrary teachers are being hired from India to teach kids here - please do not send your kids to school - maybe someone from India will corrupt his/her ways of spoken English. That reminds me of a very interesting point - I was working in NC and my manager asked me if I would mind his asking for oranges? I said - no please go ahead help yourself with oranges. He said your pronunciation of Orange is very much like a New Yorker. Why don't you pick-up local accent? In your country no one is sure how to pronounce Orange exactly same way. And how about a creek? I am sure you would have talked to some high-school drop-out from maybe Alaska. About American Sounding names - because your language has limitations - you people cannot pronounce and simple word like dhanyawad - how could you possibly pronounce our names correctly?

Not all person from India need to know or comprehend English well either. There is more in this world then just English.

Well your higher education system is good - as people from around the world compete - your any other program is rotten - no one cares for it either. And also we compete - with not much money in pockets we come here and make it big.

About service - cry out loud - jobs are going anyways - and quality will be what you pay for. (In fact you are getting better then your's).

Companies in India will give you opportunity in which you are good. You are most welcome to develop our Avionics and Defense system. Ask Capitol to help you make an entry in India. We certainly do not need third rated guys in our IT sector. Yeah of course some of 10-12 years experienced from USA can be hired as entry level programmers in Indian companies (no offense meant - this is the truth.)

Bottom line is... the worker with the expertise, experience and quality deliverable should be the prospect for the job, which is definitely the case here and if you decide to send you work-force on defense and space program - will be the case there too.

Someone tell me - how long can these closed door people cry for job that is already gone while they are not paying Spain for the pain that Columbus took to find this land! And if they are so good - why is so that jobs are rushing to India?

You sound much like Iftekhar - Iftekhar - is this your second ID?

Aryan

Posts: 4
Nickname: indianguy
Registered: Aug, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Sep 2, 2003 4:08 PM
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Hi Toni Chester,

Does your love for your own people implies only when you are included in it?

Give me a break and stop being hypocritical. Do you always make sure to see "Made in USA" tag before buying anything? I bet you don't and you are crying foul this time because your high cost (high cost does NOT mean high quality) job was given to someone with lower cost (that does NOT mean lower quality).

Wake up man its a global village and competition is tough. Work on your skills. There are plenty of jobs out there for "skilled" people. People like you and Sue can't fool the US companies anymore as they have a better alternative, which is working for them.

AJ

Posts: 6
Nickname: jharkhandi
Registered: Aug, 2003

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Sep 2, 2003 4:45 PM
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And precisely that is why I say jobs will not move to other places from India - because it is not just less cost but also ensured quality coming from India.

Do you know India has highest number of CQA from ISO in IT and that first CMM5 was achieved by an Indian company?

India has more number of CMM5 companies then any other country.

India has more number of ISO certified IT companies then any other country.

If cost was the only issue - IC fabrication should have moved to Africa long time back.

And hey Toni - forgot to tell you - Indian companies are developing IT parks in China too.

Just a couple of facts:

Who is the co-founder of Sun Microsystems?
Vinod Khosla

Who is the creator of Pentium chip (needs no introduction as 90% of the today’s computers run on it)?
Vinod Dham

Who is the founder and creator of Hotmail (Hotmail is world’s No.1 web based email program)?
Sabeer Bhatia

Who is the president of AT & T-Bell Labs (AT & T-Bell Labs is the creator of program languages such as C, C++, UNIX to name a few)?
Arun Netravalli

Who is the GM of Hewlett Packard?
Rajiv Gupta

Who is the new MTD (Microsoft Testing Director) of Windows 2000, responsible to iron out all initial problems?
Sanjay Tejwrika

Verilog, VHDL - endless list exists - open your eyes - I have named just a few. And success stories are endless.

India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend and the great grand mother of tradition.
- Mark Twain.

Toni - did it answer you?

ivirs

Posts: 1
Nickname: srivi
Registered: Sep, 2003

Do you like the "BOSE" systems..?? Posted: Sep 16, 2003 3:18 PM
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if you had not allowed Bose's dad to be in USA...The world would not have had BOSE!!

That's why they call me the bose...

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2003 12:46:39 AM ]
Call him the Minister of Sound. He’s earned that sobriquet. Amar Gopal Bose, the famously reclusive man who heads the eponymous company Bose Corporation, has distinguished himself from the crowd for his imagination, grit, courage…and for gifting music lovers with a product that’s become synonymous with music and sound systems. What usually sets winners apart from the also-rans is attitude. And, Amar Bose has loads of it. When he failed in his search for a pair of good quality speakers, which would replicate the majestic sounds of New York’s best concert halls, he went ahead and built one. And the byproduct of this labour is a $950-m organisation and a brand that sits as comfortably in the Vatican as it does in a NASA space shuttle.

Amar Bose was born in 1930 in Philadelphia. His father, Noni, had to flee Calcutta in the 1920s due to his involvement with the Independence movement. The young Amar’s interest in electronics began with miniature trains. Unable to buy a new one, he bought old models that couldn’t be repaired by the shops and fixed them. This got him a reputation as a fixer as well as some work, and once he extended his repairing skills to transistors, work came in a torrent. Frankly no one was astonished when Bose went on to study electrical engineering at the mecca of engineering: Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

As a student at MIT, Bose learned that 80% of the sound heard by a person in a concert hall is indirect — that is, sound bounced off the ceiling and walls — rather than direct from stage to ear. His second realisation came when, while doing his graduate work at MIT, he decided to purchase a new stereo system. He was sorely disappointed to find that speakers with impressive technical specifications failed to reproduce the realism of a live performance. This led to extensive research in speaker design and psycho-acoustics. Bose’s findings resulted in significantly new design concepts that help deliver the emotional impact of live music. Bose capitalised on this notion by inventing the 901 Direct/Reflecting speaker system (1968): one of the first stereo loudspeakers to utilise the space around them, instead of reproducing sound as if in a vacuum.

But it wasn’t easy selling the ideas. However deep his knowledge, marketing of patents proved extremely difficult. Companies wanted not the patents, but the person behind them. Help came in the form of MIT professor, YW Lee. Not stopping at just dishing out routine advice to start his own venture, Lee bet his $10,000 life savings on Bose’s ideas. Six years later when the company bought back Lee’s investment, it paid him $260,000.

Founded in 1964, Bose Corp’s first products were high-power amplifiers produced under contract to the US military. The first Bose product for the home — the 901 Direct/Reflecting loudspeaker system — was introduced in 1968 to international critical acclaim and consumer acceptance. The 901 stereo speaker was a runaway hit with connoisseurs starved for true sound and remained the quality of sound for 25 years. Its popularity can be gauged from the fact that it was minting money for the company for over two-and-half decades, against the standard accepted product lifecycle of six to seven years. In 1972, Bose introduced its first professional loudspeaker for performing musicians. The introduction of Acoustimass speaker technology reshaped conventional thinking about the relationship between speaker size and sound. Speakers small enough to fit in the palm produced sound quality previously thought impossible from small speakers.

The company that started in 1964 with a handful of people is now an international success. Wholly-owned Bose subsidiaries, distributors, and manufacturing facilities are found throughout the world.

Amar Bose still puts in 80 hours per week, swims for long hours and squeezes in sessions of competitive badminton. He has more than 24 patents to his name. In addition, to his position as chairman and technical director of Bose Corp, he retains his MIT faculty appointment as professor of electrical engineering and computer science. He is firm in his belief that only the best education can lead to the best technology. He teaches acoustics, and supervises graduate and undergraduate thesis students. Bose still believes in the old virtues of “really challenging” homework, and his students are always being given a formidable workload. His ever-optimistic message remains that man is a “100-cylinder engine’’ utilising just one cylinder.

Manoj Neelapu

Posts: 1
Nickname: neelapu
Registered: Mar, 2004

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Mar 9, 2004 12:17 AM
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Hi Guys,
Cool down a bit. If the American government/People have every right to do what ever they think is good for their country. Let them do.If outsourcing is bad let them ban. Who cares man!. We have the right competetive advantage and that speaks all.

I personally wish that American and European governments ban these outsourcing.That would be an wonderful idea for India. Short term would be bad no doubt, but the longterm I see a company like Microsoft/Oracle etc etc evolving out of this so called land of semi skilled , cheap labour.

I personally wish let the American government send all those Indians working in US of A back to India. (Hi worthy brothers working out there dont worry!, Its not going to happen)

I hope that wise american who wrote that initial article will realise the grandeur of my dream.

Sincerely wish him all the best.If you happen to achieve your objective setforth in initial your mail, please do remember that this guy out here in India will certainly and sincerely partake your sucess.

God help India God help America too.

claudine hutton

Posts: 1
Nickname: cnnproduce
Registered: Sep, 2004

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Sep 7, 2004 11:27 AM
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I'm a producer from CNN working on a story on outsourcing in financial services industry. If any of you lost your job in the financial services industry to outsourcing, please respond asap to discuss further. I am working on a story for wednesday, september 8.

thanks,
claudine hutton
cnn

Renu

Posts: 1
Nickname: renuv02
Registered: Jun, 2005

Re: Outsourcing in my company? I don't think so. Posted: Jun 4, 2005 6:34 PM
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Interesting article, but no new arguments though. The way I see it, any corporation is going to look for cheap commodity. Just like we look for cheap petrol, cheap iron. That is the reality, there are lot of software jobs out there are commoditized(?) If you are in such a role, then one has to think about the "next career". This is the advise I would give to my kids. Protectionism wouldn't work. (not in the long term atleast)
Am sure, there has been an increase in traffic @ www.switchbacksoftware.com ;-)

Diana Fahmie

Posts: 1
Nickname: aslinterp
Registered: Mar, 2008

Non-related Posted: Mar 23, 2008 10:42 PM
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If this is message finds you well & wanting to get back in contact with me, please do so. Curiosity & closure on our friendship is what brought me to try to find you. Peace.

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