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Thinking in Java 4e

30 replies on 3 pages. Most recent reply: May 13, 2008 11:15 AM by Frank O'Connor

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Posts: 1
Nickname: odisseus
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Feb 28, 2006 10:11 PM
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The "various reasons" why he is not publishing a free copy is just ONE reason. Now that he's famous he thinks he can make more money this way. Look at the signed copy crap too... I know money is important, but this is really too much, it's disgusting. To see a guy who has been so inspiring to many programmers behaving like this is really, really sad. You might be a Java guru, but as a man, Bruce, you suck.

Bob Beerbower

Posts: 5
Nickname: bob5820
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Mar 1, 2006 4:57 PM
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> The "various reasons" why he is not publishing a free copy
> is just ONE reason. Now that he's famous he thinks he can
> make more money this way. Look at the signed copy crap
> too... I know money is important, but this is really too
> much, it's disgusting. To see a guy who has been so
> inspiring to many programmers behaving like this is
> really, really sad. You might be a Java guru, but as a
> man, Bruce, you suck.

An author who actually wants to make a profit on his hard work , how does that in any stretch of the imagination suck. Its a 1400 plus page book, that you can pick up on Amazon for $38.00, that's about 27 cents a page. Rather then bash Bruce on this, I think that we owe him a great deal of thanks, not only for the contributions he has made over the years, but for giving the material away for free as long as he did, a practice that the publisher was most likely never happy about. And what's the big deal about paying a little extra for a signed copy. Autographs have never been a priority for me, but I hardly see this as being any kind of moral issue.

zzz zzz

Posts: 1
Nickname: z4
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Mar 2, 2006 10:05 AM
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Im living outside US and wondering where can I buy a pdf version of TIJ4

Denis Krukovsky

Posts: 6
Nickname: dkrukovsky
Registered: Feb, 2005

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Mar 2, 2006 12:18 PM
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I wonder what book you did wrote and made available for free?

Denis Krukovsky
http://talkinghub.com/

robert young

Posts: 361
Nickname: funbunny
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Mar 5, 2006 8:53 PM
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a copy finally found its way to my local B&N. flipped through it, and saw that the code is still in that crayon line wrapped font. i'll have to pass, even though i've found the prose useful in past editions.

zzz zzz

Posts: 1
Nickname: zzzzzzzzzz
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Mar 20, 2006 1:32 AM
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Well, harsh comments like Bruce Suck or so are surely not welcome. I agree that Bruce has done a great job by making the earlier copies free and now he is trying to make some money out of it. We all respect it. However, Bruce should not forget about how it all started. He started writing this book based on his experience of TEACHING Java. And he also learnt along the way. Most of the benefit of making the book freely available went to the student community or those who really can not afford the book. Trust me, there are millions such people. And these followeres always supported Bruce (like me) who bought the book when they could afford it after college and in the industry.

I respect Burce's decision as it is HIS book and only he can decide what to do with the book. However, I would love to see the book freely available as it will help students community a lot (I still remember my student days when we used to praise him among ourselves). It has never stopped people to buy the book who can afford it anyway.

zzzzzzzzzzz

Andrea Andenna

Posts: 2
Nickname: penna
Registered: Nov, 2005

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Apr 1, 2006 7:55 PM
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I've a question to Bruce, or to anyone who might be informed.
In TIJ3 there was Appendix A - Passing & Returning Objects.
Among other things, in this section the use of the clone() method was explained.
In the 4th edition this appendix is missing and, looking in the index, I don't see any reference to the clone() method.
What is the reason of this "cut"? Was the book already too long? Or the idea is that it is better not to use clone() anymore?

Bruce Eckel

Posts: 868
Nickname: beckel
Registered: Jun, 2003

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Apr 6, 2006 2:50 PM
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A lot of things were moved because of size issues. You can find cloning in either the 2nd or 3rd editions, at:
http://www.mindviewinc.com/

You might also look at Joshua Bloch's "Effective Java" where he points out that clone() was a bad design decision so it's risky and unreliable.

Erik Midtskogen

Posts: 4
Nickname: nordmann
Registered: Apr, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Apr 20, 2006 2:05 PM
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Hi Bruce,

Like most, I respect your decision to begin requiring payment for your work, and am grateful to you for your immeasurable past and continuing contributions to the quality-oriented community of developers.

While I have always bought the hardcopy versions of your books, I do have one request: could you make a full electronic version of the fourth edition of Thinking in Java available? I have bought ebooks by other authors (Gavin King, Bob Ducharme) from Manning Press in PDF format, and this has worked out very nicely for me.

My reason for preferring an electronic format is that I spend several hours a day on a train, and I can't be lugging a stack of 1400-page books around with me everywhere I go.

Also, there is the side benefit of cutting down on usage of natural resources, although I must say that it is a more aesthetically pleasing experience to read a nicely printed and bound book than to squint at a computer screen, and this is one reason I usually buy a printed copy as well.

Erik Midtskogen

Posts: 4
Nickname: nordmann
Registered: Apr, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Apr 20, 2006 2:07 PM
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Hey little man, Bruce has been "famous" since long before you applied for that programming course at the local CC. A little respect and gratitude might be in order here.

Erik Midtskogen

Posts: 4
Nickname: nordmann
Registered: Apr, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Apr 20, 2006 3:28 PM
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Aha, here's what I was thinking: go take a look at osoft.com. In addition to being able to sell TIJ4 in electronic format, they have a nice little Open Source reader called "Thout" that's specially oriented towards tech documentation. OSoft is even willing to help you out if you'd like a special "skin" for your book as viewed in the Thout reader. It might be worth a look.

Hope this helps.
--Erik

Bruce Eckel

Posts: 868
Nickname: beckel
Registered: Jun, 2003

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Apr 24, 2006 2:23 PM
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I looked through the Thout site and ran the reader -- it looks a bit like the Windows help format, but in a cross-platform version. The biggest issue is that I see no readily available converter from Word to the OpenReader format.

(I also found it curious that they are planning on rewriting Thout from its current Java version into Perl. I never thought of Perl as having anywhere near the graphics support that Java does, so this seems like a very strange choice, and I wonder if they can be successful -- also, Perl is not known for creating successful large projects).

It seems like PDF is the safest choice if I do this -- unless someone can come up with a compelling reason not to.

Erik Midtskogen

Posts: 4
Nickname: nordmann
Registered: Apr, 2006

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Apr 25, 2006 3:11 PM
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Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the reply. PDF format for TIJ4 would be perfectly fine, too. In fact, PDF format seems to be the primary format for the books offered on osoft's site. I only recommended the Thout reader as an optional format because it has some handy features such as the highlighter and notes.

If you have any way of coaxing TIJ into a DOM, then an XSLT transformer could presumably pump it out into a Thout package if you hand it a ZipOutputStream, although I have no real knowledge of the Thout format.

Are they considering dumping Java and regressing to Perl?? That would be very strange, indeed. The Java-based Thout reader does have some issues. It's a memory hog and seems to have some flickering on repaints. The bug in Component.repaint() looks like a minor one, so I'm a bit puzzled why it isn't fixed yet. And a 65MB memory footprint for a document reader is further indication that the quality of the code isn't very good. But that's not a reason to dump Java.

I wish I had the time to lend a hand with the Thout project and maybe write a converter to create Thout packages. The basic idea of the Thout reader is really neat, and I'd love to help out. But there's only so much I can do in my time. And if they're going to try hacking it together in Perl, then I'd rather be a spectator for that one.

aa bb

Posts: 1
Nickname: vasiliy
Registered: Mar, 2007

Re: Thinking in Java 4e Posted: Mar 2, 2007 4:24 AM
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Hello Bruce.

When you made you book unavailable for free you betrayed java community, and all people that had helped you in making of this good book.

I appeal to not to buy your book!

I want to ask you: Why did you decide to made it ?

vasiliy.

Ethan Smith

Posts: 1
Nickname: ethansmith
Registered: Mar, 2007

Online PDF or similar. Posted: Mar 15, 2007 9:57 AM
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Has a version of Thinking In Java 4th Edition become available online? If not, how long until it becomes available. I loved how the 3rd Edition was online because it helped my manager decide to purchase the book. I was hoping to do the same with the 4th edition.

The first few chapters is an excellent start but he wants to see some of the later stuff. So I'm just wondering if the full book will be available online anytime soon.

Thanks.

--Ethan

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