The Artima Developer Community
Sponsored Link

Weblogs Forum
Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come

117 replies on 8 pages. Most recent reply: Jun 15, 2007 5:29 AM by Ian Ozsvald

Welcome Guest
  Sign In

Go back to the topic listing  Back to Topic List Click to reply to this topic  Reply to this Topic Click to search messages in this forum  Search Forum Click for a threaded view of the topic  Threaded View   
Previous Topic   Next Topic
Flat View: This topic has 117 replies on 8 pages [ « | 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 | » ]
Peter Slizik

Posts: 1
Nickname: pslizik
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 8:12 AM
Reply to this message Reply
Advertisement
Three old hackers lived at the seashore. So far had they went forward in their spiritual development that marvelous things began happening around them. Every day, when they finished their morning meditations, and went to have a swim in the sea, they hung their meditation gowns simply in the wind. The gowns stayed flying in the wind, until the hackers returned and got them on. One day, when they were enjoying their swim, they saw a sparkling precious stone, making its way along the county railroad. It seemed that the gem would run down an old snake, which was enjoying the sun. One of the hacker said: "The gem is firm and strong, and it is moving very fast. It will defeat the old snake." Immediately, his gown fell down into the sand. The second hacker claimed: "The old snake is well-designed, it will endure forever. No creature at the beach is advanced enough to beat it." His gown fell down into the sand as well. The third hacker kept silent - and his coat remained flying in the wind.

John Sirbu

Posts: 5
Nickname: silverleaf
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 8:38 AM
Reply to this message Reply
I dodged nothing… I brought up you had not talked about anything substantial in regards to the topic, furthermore feeble attempts of sarcasm are not my specialty however elegant subtly (which is appreciated by few and lost by most) is…

Most people will argue that the logical negation operator shouldn’t be used in most cases.

In this instance since cordially toward others and respect for the viewpoints is paramount to being a serious professional (something you might consider valuable on day) I felt it appropriate to be used…

Things such a vocalizing ones hostility and being inconsiderate toward another person is harmful to a one career especially since things last a very long time on the internet. Good day, I think we are done with you now.

Jerry F

Posts: 4
Nickname: jefe59
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 9:04 AM
Reply to this message Reply
Looks like the marketing has begun!

See http://digg.com/software/Python_s_new_and_improved_website

Can you digg it?

piglet

Posts: 63
Nickname: piglet
Registered: Dec, 2005

Going to the moon Posted: Mar 8, 2006 11:07 AM
Reply to this message Reply
This poetry contest is getting better and better. My favorite up to now:

What was in the mind of Guido when created this phenomenal language? which was the dream? Is this possible to expand that dream so, it can generate unusual enthusiasm in the community (remember the dream of Kennedy about going to the moon)?

Not bad, either:
Just as people expect their local sports hero to be a role model, tech people look for the opinions of their leaders.

To be sure, as always, some got a bit carried away:

I find your attitude one of grand enlightenment. Your insight into my heart makes me take heed at your greatness. I am humbled by your wisdom, we all are. Ultimately know that in confidence your words resonate in the hearts and minds of everyone you speak with and their lives are forever enriched and blessed by the words pouring from your mouth. Take great pride your kind words will be recorded for all to read a see.

The last word has Ella:
You say tomato, I say tahmahtoh... Let's live and let live.

Paul Winkler

Posts: 1
Nickname: slinkp
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 12:12 PM
Reply to this message Reply
(snip)
> 2) After you have done the above tell the Zope guys about
> it so that zope products can be installed the same say.

We're working on eggifying zope already:
http://yergler.net/blog/2006/03/07/zope-sprint-reflections/

> 3) Guido, you must lay the law down and select "the one
> true way".

I don't want that. I think a lot of people don't want that. I want the diverse projects to work together more easily in whole or as parts. We're getting there.

Dick Ford

Posts: 149
Nickname: roybatty
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 2:35 PM
Reply to this message Reply
Things such a vocalizing ones hostility and being inconsiderate toward another person is harmful to a one career especially since things last a very long time on the internet.

Hehe, that's the exact problem you have now. Nobody wants to work with a whiner. Oh, by the way, it looks like the developer section of Slashdot has some interesting stuff today. If I were you, I'd avoid it though, because you're going to be real "sick and tired".

But who cares? The number of Python developers dwarfs the number of Ruby developers. Ruby can't take Python away from you. Bruce Tate can't take away Python from you.

Guido van van Rossum

Posts: 359
Nickname: guido
Registered: Apr, 2003

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 3:30 PM
Reply to this message Reply
Mr. Ford, please stop while you're ahead. You've made your point. You've made it again. We get it. Personal attacks serve no purpose, and aren't good defense against such.

Dick Ford

Posts: 149
Nickname: roybatty
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 4:30 PM
Reply to this message Reply
Guido, the point I was making was that it serves no purpose for the python community to get defensive about Ruby or RoR. In fact, it can be self-defeating. Take a look at Javalobby or TheServerSide as an example. They post "articles" to rally the troops, circle the wagons, and now on any given day you see some JRoller blogger talking about trying out RoR for a small project.

The email served no other purpose except to show a defensive, irrational rage over Ruby and RoR. If anything, interest in Ruby can only heighten awareness and interest of the strengths of dynamic languages - which include Python. The Smalltalk community has welcomed the coming out party of Ruby, so should the Python community. Python has already received a lot of press over the years before Ruby was well-known. The personal attacks started with John's sarcastic response to me.

Guido van van Rossum

Posts: 359
Nickname: guido
Registered: Apr, 2003

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 4:35 PM
Reply to this message Reply
> Guido, the point I was making was that it serves no
> purpose for the python community to get defensive about
> Ruby or RoR.

And we all got that. Most posters got it before you posted.

> The email served no other purpose except to show a
> defensive, irrational rage over Ruby and RoR.

Actually it served as a great starting point for a
discussion about Python marketing.

> The personal attacks
> started with John's sarcastic response to me.

No it started with your whiney first post.

Dick Ford

Posts: 149
Nickname: roybatty
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 5:01 PM
Reply to this message Reply
> Guido, the point I was making was that it serves no
> purpose for the python community to get defensive about
> Ruby or RoR.

And we all got that. Most posters got it before you posted.


John didn't seem to get that.

> The email served no other purpose except to show a
> defensive, irrational rage over Ruby and RoR.

Actually it served as a great starting point for a
discussion about Python marketing.


Whining about Ruby is a great starting point?

> The personal attacks
> started with John's sarcastic response to me.

No it started with your whiney first post.


No, it was John that is "sick and tired" of all the Ruby press.

Ron Stephens

Posts: 4
Nickname: ursus
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 6:36 PM
Reply to this message Reply
This is a topic I have often thought about.

I want to bring attention to Steve Holden's weblog post, that I think makes some really good points, mainly about the importance of selling the sizzle, not the steak. I agree with his comments. Steve's weblog is at http://holdenweb.blogspot.com/

Also, I like this page Steve has created http://www.squidoo.com/pythonology/

I've done my share of boosterism over the last five years, I did book reviews of Python books and got several of them slashdotted. It was fun to see the Amazon sales statistics of particular books sky rocket after being Slashdoted. Believe it or not, that's how I get my kicks. I'm a marketeer of 30 years experience in a completely different technical industry, but I wouldn't consider getting book reviews to be marketing per se, just effective boosterism.

What effective marketing might be is organizing to effectively multiply or magnify the results of individual efforts. That's why I like my Python411 podcast, with an amazing listenership, but I want to multiply its results by getting other Pythonistas to do guess podcasts; producing a better "product" than what I am dooing alone, but taking advantage of the distribution network already in place. I was fortunate in that not long after I started the podcast, Apple released the iTunes with support for podcasts, and the very first time promoted "indie" podcasts on the front page of iTunes music store, they highlighted Python411 as one of the 5 indy podcasts promoted in the technology category. This immediately made Python411 "popular".

In addition to selling the sizzle, or the benefits of Python to prospective users, is the importance of "buzz". Whether we like it or not, buzz is important. Python has had its share. I found Python after reading a quote by Guido about "Computer Programming for Everybody" in a book on the open source development movement. I also saw Python favorably mentioned online and in newsgroups.

It seems that another language, similar in some ways to Python, and attractive to some of the same people who might otherwise be attracted to Python, is getting more buzz all of a sudden than Python is. Whether we like it or not, this sets up a friendly competition. We didn't mind it when we were in the young upstart position nipping at Perl's heels.

To get more buzz for Python, one thing we should try to do is maximize the publicity we can get out of any milestones of significance.

Off the top of my head, I might list upcoming milestones as:

1. The Production release of IronPython, when it happens. This should be really big news, and all of us should "talk it up". Press releases are appropriate; they can't hurt, although I hear you when you say it doesn't usually seem to work when we put them out. Ideally, someone should be talking to Microsoft saying, please promote this and hype it. Show Microsoft that the Python community supports their efforts with Python. I hear our sister dynamic language with alot s of buzz right now, is burdened with a RoR creator who is openly antagonistic and insulting towards Windows and deplores those developers who use Windows, which is a bad marketing move if there ever was one. Let's try to fill the gap. I would never engage in negative marketing, but it wouldn't hurt if RoR's creator's public, online negative and insulting statements about Microsoft and Windows found their way to Jim Hugunin to use as he sees fit within Microsoft.

2. The Python 2.5 release is promotable. It's a big event, showcasing our successful, continuous development as opposed to a Perl 6 type drama. It is a milestone and there are some sizzle elements to it that can be emphasized.

3. Successful completion of this EU funded stage of PyPy is promotable. The sizzle might be that folks want to be associated with a programming language that is on the cutting edge.

4. Python on the Nokia Series 60 is cool, but somehow needs to be tied into a story about wide availability on handheld devices. We may not be quite ready to promote this aggressively yet. I am maintaining a "Python on Mobile Devices" web page on my site, but right now its still a little haphazard because support seems to come and go on particular devices. But soon-it will-be promotable .

5. PySense, Humanoid Robots, a Wearable System and Python is a story that has plenty of sizzle. I attended my first PyCon and that talk was dynamite; a human interest story, with plenty of high tech, high touch, and the young MIT professor is a sensationally good public speaker. I don't know if MIT would let us somehow promote that story more, but its worth asking the question. I would think that kind of story woudl be perfect for a tech journal to pick up.
I coudl see it on the coer of Linux World, Dr. Dobb's Journal, or any of a number of other magazines.

Anyway, that's just my two cents worth.

Ron Stephens

Ron Stephens

Posts: 4
Nickname: ursus
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 8, 2006 8:47 PM
Reply to this message Reply
By the way, I really like the new python.org website. It's clear, easy to navigate and aesthetically pleasing. I think it is also more corporate-friendly looking, which is a good thing.

If there's one word I would suggest as a slogan for Python, it's "friendly". Python is friendly for Linux users, friendly for Mac OS X users, friendly for Windows users, friendly to JVM users, and handheld users; friendly for web server programmers, client-side GUI programmers, etc.

Python has a friendly community, is friendly to experts, and friendly to newbies.

Heck, we're even friendly to other programming language communnities...

Even the Python logo is friendly ;-))

Dick Ford

Posts: 149
Nickname: roybatty
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 9, 2006 3:23 AM
Reply to this message Reply
1. The Production release of IronPython, when it happens. This should be really big news, and all of us should "talk it up". Press releases are appropriate; they can't hurt, although I hear you when you say it doesn't usually seem to work when we put them out. Ideally, someone should be talking to Microsoft saying, please promote this and hype it. Show Microsoft that the Python community supports their efforts with Python. I hear our sister dynamic language with alot s of buzz right now, is burdened with a RoR creator who is openly antagonistic and insulting towards Windows and deplores those developers who use Windows, which is a bad marketing move if there ever was one. Let's try to fill the gap.


Unlike Sun, Microsoft doesn't seem to really care what language runs on top of the CLR - as long as it runs on top of the CLR. C#, VB, JScript, J#, C++...what's another language to them. If anything, IronPython could be a backdoor technology in a Microsoft shop similiarly to how Linux was snuck in during it's infancy. I think there's a VS addin now too.

Of course there's always the risk that Microsoft could "fork" it in some way to make it into something other than Python. How close to Python is IronPython? And then there's the Microsoft haters that wouldn't want any kind of promotion of IronPython just because it's associated with Microsoft, but hey, you have to seize opportunities when they arise.

John Sirbu

Posts: 5
Nickname: silverleaf
Registered: Mar, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 9, 2006 5:51 AM
Reply to this message Reply
A Google for "python scripts microsoft" turns up the first hit as...

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/scripts/python/default.mspx

A rather wide selection of SysAdmin scripts for probing and queries.

Risks of forking do exist, yes... Lets hope they learned their lesson NOT to fork, J+ and Jscript hopefully have taught them the error of such ways...

Petr Mares

Posts: 5
Nickname: dramenbejs
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Posted: Mar 9, 2006 9:34 AM
Reply to this message Reply
Nice to see, that there are people doing a lot of so-called marketing right now -- and I se it quite natural.

The reason is IMHO that python is most simple in design (but not simpler ;^)), yet most powerfull, hence lovable.

When you learn Python, you can experience a lot of excitement. This is an emotional motor of uncommercial python-induced actions like web pages about python, discussions, conferences...

Em... did I just say that it is important to have fun with it to "work for it" for free? Yes, I can insist on that.

I evaluate the idea that this "pythonic" simplicity & power is the most important factor for python spreading and that any other success is some kind of a consequence of that simplicity.
Competent people often choose simplest solution to a problem if the solution is extensible enough...

Forgive me if I unintendedly offended anyone.

Flat View: This topic has 117 replies on 8 pages [ « | 4  5  6  7  8 | » ]
Topic: Marketing Python - An Idea Whose Time Has Come Previous Topic   Next Topic Topic: Reference Architecture


Sponsored Links



Google
  Web Artima.com   

Copyright © 1996-2017 Artima, Inc. All Rights Reserved. - Privacy Policy - Terms of Use - Advertise with Us