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Hybridizing Java

129 replies on 9 pages. Most recent reply: Mar 18, 2011 1:41 PM by David Benson

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Jeff Ratcliff

Posts: 242
Nickname: jr1
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Legal Issues with Flex? Posted: Feb 10, 2007 1:44 AM
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>
> Also, if you could clarify your position with Adobe, it
> would help potential ISVs understand why you are promoting
> Flex over all other possible solutions. What sort of
> compensation are you receiving from Adobe and what has
> Adobe tasked you to do for this compensation?
>
> This latter matter is important as your technical
> arguments are mostly hyperbole and 'case building' against
> Flex competitors.

Disclosure is nice, but at the end of the day one has to look at the arguments and let them determine what decision to make. The fact that Bruce is a "famous" guy or he's getting money from Adobe should not be a factor one way or the other.

James Madison

Posts: 2
Nickname: madison
Registered: Feb, 2007

Re: Legal Issues with Flex? Posted: Feb 11, 2007 4:18 PM
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"Disclosure is nice, but at the end of the day one has to look at the arguments and let them determine what decision to make. The fact that Bruce is a "famous" guy or he's getting money from Adobe should not be a factor one way or the other."

I'm sure you will agree that any arguments are woefully incomplete without having concrete knowledge of the legal aspects of Flex (or of any important technology).

Without jumping to any conclusions, all indications point to Flex being tightly controlled and arbitrarily licensed proprietary Adobe technology. There is nothing truly "open" about it.

If Bruce is getting paid by Adobe to deliver a series of Adobe infomercials to the market -- under the guise of some sort of impartial technical stewardship -- then Bruce may be guilty of fraud. This particular sort of fraud is often referred to as "fraud in the factum" or "fraud in the inducement".

There are some very basic legal rules regarding promotion that need to be followed. As Bruce has not followed them, he is creating a problem for himself and possibly Adobe as well.

In the end, "arguments" are not just about what is being presented. They are about who is presenting the information and why they are presenting the information, and what interest they have in the outcome of presenting the information. This is not just an ideal, it is the law.

For our situation here with Bruce's promotion of proprietary Adobe technology, a simple disclosure at the top of the original article would have sufficed to make it clear to the readers why Bruce is supporting Flex.

Mo Welch

Posts: 2
Nickname: mjjava
Registered: Jan, 2006

Re: Hybridizing Java Posted: Feb 11, 2007 5:29 PM
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Re your remarks regarding "Flex". What's the difference, if any, between "Flex" and "Flash"?

James Ward

Posts: 42
Nickname: jlward4th
Registered: Jun, 2006

Re: Hybridizing Java Posted: Feb 11, 2007 5:31 PM
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Hi Mo,

Flex is a programming toolkit for building applications which execute in the Flash Player's Virtual Machine. Learn more at:
http://www.flex.org/

Jeff Ratcliff

Posts: 242
Nickname: jr1
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Legal Issues with Flex? Posted: Feb 12, 2007 2:51 PM
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> I'm sure you will agree that any arguments are woefully
> incomplete without having concrete knowledge of the legal
> aspects of Flex (or of any important technology).

This has nothing to do with the disclosure issue, but I agree that licensing issues are important. You don't have to look any further than companies rushing to incorporate GPL'd code without their legal council examining the full ramifications to understand that.

> In the end, "arguments" are not just about what is being
> presented. They are about who is presenting the
> information and why they are presenting the information,
> and what interest they have in the outcome of presenting
> the information. This is not just an ideal, it is the
> law.

As a matter of law, perhaps, but as a matter of logic, no.

Matthew Wilson

Posts: 3
Nickname: mlavwilson
Registered: Feb, 2007

Re: Legal Issues with Flex? Posted: Feb 13, 2007 7:36 AM
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Its funy that bruce talks about errors with web start. The demo app for flex, I get:

Site Area Temporarily UnavailableError.

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T hat example was, I agree, unfair.

James Ward

Posts: 42
Nickname: jlward4th
Registered: Jun, 2006

Re: Legal Issues with Flex? Posted: Feb 13, 2007 7:39 AM
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Which demo app are you referring to? There are a bunch here:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/index.html?tab:samples=1#adobesamples

Matthew Wilson

Posts: 3
Nickname: mlavwilson
Registered: Feb, 2007

Re: Legal Issues with Flex? Posted: Feb 13, 2007 7:53 AM
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The first one here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/example_apps.html

Matthew Wilson

Posts: 3
Nickname: mlavwilson
Registered: Feb, 2007

Re: Legal Issues with Flex? Posted: Feb 13, 2007 7:54 AM
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Thanks for your link. This is a much better list.

Anthony Franco

Posts: 1
Nickname: afranco
Registered: Feb, 2007

Re: Hybridizing Java Posted: Feb 13, 2007 1:38 PM
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This is an excellent article! We do an extensive amount of RIA development for fortune 500 companies, and we constantly find ourselves using the flash player as our preferred deployment platform. Our biggest obstacle when telling our clients about Flex and Flash, is the internal IT departments. They are worried about scalability, performance, and maintenance of flash applications ... These types of articles (ones that try to filter out the religious evangelism and just get the the real world, practical issues), are imperative to the advancement of the next generation of Internet applications.

Anthony
http://www.effectiveui.com
http://anthonyfranco.wordpress.com

Wladimir van der Laan

Posts: 2
Nickname: wump
Registered: Feb, 2007

Re: Swing on top of Flash Posted: Feb 15, 2007 4:23 AM
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> Also about multithreading, can somebody shortly explain me
> how Flex handles the case in which the user presses a
> button, a remote invocation to the server must be
> performed and it can take seconds, and the whole GUI
> doesn't get blocked? Thanks.

Usually, asynchronous networking using event handlers is used in this case.
The GUI event loop listens for network events (connection made, incoming data, socket ready for send, etc..) as well as GUI events and processes both as they come in.
This is very elegant as it allows keeping open a lot of connections without having a thread that sleeps most of it's lifetime for each.

Of course, for the real background crunching work you'd still like multi threading, but for clients and GUI interfaces it's hardly useful to have multiple threads.

Alessio Saltarin

Posts: 1
Nickname: axsaxs
Registered: Jun, 2003

Re: Hybridizing Java Posted: Feb 20, 2007 1:31 AM
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Bruce, I'm just playing with Flex2 and found the very same limitations of Java Applets!

The problem is the security (again! why don't they let me do what I just want to do?!?).

Example: I want to write an application CDROM based that loads a program from the CDROM and then gives you the opportunity to visit my web site.

1) I compile the SWF with the switch
-use-network=true;
SECURITY ERROR #2028: I cannot access to local disk

2) I compile the SWF with
-use-network=false
SECURITY ERROR #2148: You cannot access Web URLs!!!

We aren't going anywhere if we do not permit the developers to do what they want to do.

That's why HTML succeeds! No one is telling me "No, you can't!"

Anyone solved this puzzle with Flex?

Shahzad Bhatti

Posts: 2
Nickname: bhatsha
Registered: May, 2005

Re: Hybridizing Java Posted: Feb 26, 2007 5:32 PM
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Though, I am not big fan of proprietary software, but I have to agree that AJAX is not the right choice for Rich Internet Applications. I have been using AJAX for last couple of years on several web projects that used modest use of AJAX and it worked pretty well. However, I was recently involved with building an adhoc-reporting application that really tested limits of AJAX. The application communicated with dozens of services and produced data for the reports. However, instead of updating report in one shot, the data simply came incremently and each column or cell was updated as the data came in. This resulted in tens of thousands of calls for getElementByID or $(), which took several seconds to update the cells. The application also used freeze-panes, dynamic tabs and other neat components needed for RIA, which didn't quite work across browsers. I am going to take a closer look at OpenLazlo and Flex.

jonathan buckland

Posts: 1
Nickname: spacey
Registered: Mar, 2007

Re: Hybridizing Java Posted: Mar 14, 2007 5:00 PM
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What a java bashing, we use almost use 90% java commercially for other clients.
There are many successful java applictions, eclipse etc.
That said I can't wait to try Flex, maybe today. Cause writing applications in Flash 8 is painful much more than java.

ox y

Posts: 1
Nickname: oxy
Registered: Mar, 2007

Re: Hybridizing Java Posted: Mar 20, 2007 1:51 PM
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> However, instead of
> updating report in one shot, the data simply came
> incremently and each column or cell was updated as the
> data came in. This resulted in tens of thousands of calls
> for getElementByID or $(), which took several seconds to
> update the cells.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to have a server app collect this information from multiple sources before sending it back to you in a controlled manner.

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