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What's Wrong with JSF?

19 replies on 2 pages. Most recent reply: Jun 16, 2007 2:25 AM by Roger Voss

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Flat View: This topic has 19 replies on 2 pages [ « | 1 2 ]
Paul Brickell

Posts: 3
Nickname: paulbr
Registered: Jun, 2007

Re: server-side web framework development obsolete Posted: Jun 13, 2007 2:01 AM
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Actually you couldn't be more wrong.

For one thing JavaFX is not for building internet apps at all. It's for the desktop.

Echo2 is right at the forefront of what RIA should be. Execute the business logic on the server (where it belongs) and send tiny little messages between the client and the server. Frankly if you lose your network connection your RIA should be dead.

The stupendous win with echo 2 is that you really develop all your application in Java. No HTML, no Javascript, no tags, no configuration files flying all over the place. Lovely.

Paul Brickell

Posts: 3
Nickname: paulbr
Registered: Jun, 2007

Re: server-side web framework development obsolete Posted: Jun 13, 2007 5:41 AM
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In my previous post I should have made it clear I was referring to rogerv's previous post about RIA tools.

Paul Brickell

Posts: 3
Nickname: paulbr
Registered: Jun, 2007

Re: server-side web framework development obsolete Posted: Jun 13, 2007 6:00 AM
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Actually I will partially take back what I said about JavaFX. Sun are pitching it as an RIA framework, but they are being disingenuous. It will only run on a platform where Java is installed. I wonder why they did that?

Roger Voss

Posts: 27
Nickname: rogerv
Registered: Aug, 2005

Re: server-side web framework development obsolete Posted: Jun 16, 2007 2:11 AM
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> Echo2 is right at the forefront of what RIA should be.
> Execute the business logic on the server (where it
> belongs) and send tiny little messages between the client
> and the server. Frankly if you lose your network
> connection your RIA should be dead.
>
> The stupendous win with echo 2 is that you really develop
> all your application in Java. No HTML, no Javascript, no
> tags, no configuration files flying all over the place.
> Lovely.

Distributed applications that handle UI event processing via spanning it over a network connection are ill conceived. They get hung up and stiff the user with baffling (and inconsiderate) non-responsiveness when the network flakes. They only behave reasonably when network connectivity remains ideal in all respects.

GWT apps, in contrast, are written in Java source code but their UI behavior executes entirely in a client browser. The only network interactions for GWT apps (other than initial loading) are async RPC calls - being async they don't block the UI thread in any manner so the UI remains responsive at all times.

Same goes for a Flex app that uses HttpService asynchronously or the bi-directional messaging XmlSocket class.

Roger Voss

Posts: 27
Nickname: rogerv
Registered: Aug, 2005

Re: server-side web framework development obsolete Posted: Jun 16, 2007 2:25 AM
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> Echo2 is right at the forefront of what RIA should be.
> Execute the business logic on the server (where it
> belongs)

RIA apps built using GWT or Flex execute business logic on the server as well via asynchronously invoking services in a SOA middle-tier.

> Frankly if you lose your network connection your RIA should be dead.

Not at all - a client app should remain responsive to a user at all times under all circumstances. Network connectivity and/or server execution responsiveness can come and go but that is no excuse for UI to become frozen to a user's attempt to interact with it. An app that locks up UI-wise due to such is the product of faulty design.

The page model of web 1.0 is a bad design due to that fundamental flaw (UI that goes dead waiting for a synchronous response as delivered over a network connection).

The architects of Echo2 and other web frameworks that smear UI event processing accross the network divide never learned the right lessons regarding the bad characteristics of the web 1.0 user experience.

Flat View: This topic has 19 replies on 2 pages [ « | 1  2 ]
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