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We will not ship shit.

19 replies on 2 pages. Most recent reply: Feb 22, 2013 4:21 AM by Jay SuperDev

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Flat View: This topic has 19 replies on 2 pages [ « | 1 2 ]
Steve Ropa

Posts: 3
Nickname: steveropa
Registered: Jan, 2004

Re: XP propaganda? Posted: Jan 7, 2004 12:10 PM
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Oh, come now JB, surely you realize by now that just by saying "XP" you are using propoganda?

Personally, I am more concerned at the number of posts that are suggesting that willingness to ship shit is a Good Thing. I am currently a full time Customer, and I would have a cow if I found such an attitude in any of the shops I am working with. I don't tell my teams that I expect them to give me the best work possible. I assume that they are professionals, and therefore they *will* ship the best possible. If I don't tell them I want their best, will I appear to be the customer that is willing to accept shit?

Jon Hanna

Posts: 7
Nickname: talliesin
Registered: Nov, 2003

Craftsmanship Posted: Jan 9, 2004 7:19 AM
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I like the use of the word "craftsman".

We're not scientists, seeking to discover things.
We're not artists, seeking to say something.

We're craftsmen; we build what is needed and make it as beautiful as we can, and we don't feel happy until it is both functionally and aesthetically complete.

Andrew Koenig

Posts: 10
Nickname: ark
Registered: Apr, 2003

Re: We will not ship shit. Posted: Jun 13, 2004 12:01 PM
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Bob--you say that anything less than the best you can do is shit, and you will not ship shit.

How does that view square with the XP doctrine that as soon as the tests pass, you're done? Are you saying that you are defining "the best you can do" to exclude all attributes of a program for which you do not know how to write automated tests?

For example: You have written an application that does what is expected of it, but it feels slightly sluggish rather than really snappy. You do not know how to write a test that will reliably detect this subjective behavior. Nevertheless, you have a pretty good idea about an algorithmic change that will speed up what you believe is the critical section of the code.

Is the program shit in its current state because you know how to improve it? Or do you feel obligated to ship it because you do not know how to write a test that will prove that the improvement is really an improvement? Or is it all right to ship it anyway because even though it feels sluggish, it is much better than the customer expects, and you believe that the customer would rather have a working version now and an optimized one later?

James Watson

Posts: 2024
Nickname: watson
Registered: Sep, 2005

Re: The Client Knows Not Posted: May 15, 2006 9:28 AM
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> People choose lower quality products all the time in
> exchange for money in their pocket.
> I've lived with a dodgy starter motor on my car for a
> couple of years. The engine often takes a couple of
> minutes to turn over, but I don't care. I don't want to
> spend money on making it work "first-time every-time", as
> long as it works "within a reasonable period of time".

I would recommend you get that fixed. Chances are that it will stop working completely and at an inconvienient time. Avoid stopping the engine in any remote area until you have replaced it. In my case, I have a young child and if I need to get her to the hospital, I need my engine to start. It's hard to put a price on reliability but it's surely valuable.

I've been stranded a couple of times by starters that failed when I didn't react soon engough to the warning signs. When the third starter started to make funny noises, I sold it and got a different kind of car.

Jay SuperDev

Posts: 1
Nickname: jsuperdev
Registered: Feb, 2013

Re: We will not ship shit. Posted: Feb 22, 2013 4:21 AM
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I will not ship shit.
I will not shit chip.
I will not chip chip
chip chip chip chip

Clearly, now that cowboy agile has become rampant, a set of rules are in order. Because, in effect.. everything is agile nowadays... even you sitting in your chair not writing documentation. That's agile. Still, let's take the customer to your place of work. He will ask you: "Do you ship shit?" And every software dev company will say: "NO, we don't!" Or your CEO comes over and asks the CIO or CTO whether they ship shit.. They will say "NO!". Or ask that cheap outsourcing company in india, the would only ship shit if that would result in the carbon being compressed until it turns into a shiny diamond, for the customers pleasure.

Without metrics or qualification, you can shit err ship whatever you want to.

Just don't make me use your software.

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