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Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

30 replies on 3 pages. Most recent reply: Oct 3, 2007 9:25 AM by Rene Clabaugh

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Flat View: This topic has 30 replies on 3 pages [ « | 1 2 3 | » ]

robert young

Posts: 361
Nickname: funbunny
Registered: Sep, 2003

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 22, 2007 1:40 PM

Reply

Advertisement

> > That's right, Mel, you aren't a real programmer if you
> > don't start from scratch. Now let's get back to
> writing
> > machine code.
>
> Robert Young shoots on OO since he contributes to Artima
> discussions. Some people will always be neurotic about a
> certain technology whatsoever. Fortunately there are very
> few people posting here where caring about them is a
> complete waste of time.

An ad hominum attack that isn't even coherent english. So, yes, authors who aren't solely developers can write better about a language than those who are solely developers. And for the reason stated.

Kay Schluehr

Posts: 302
Nickname: schluehk
Registered: Jan, 2005

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 22, 2007 11:34 PM

Reply

> An ad hominum attack that isn't even coherent english.
> So, yes, authors who aren't solely developers can write
> e better about a language than those who are solely
> developers. And for the reason stated.

Coherence or not, you like to offend programmers for whatever reasons. It's always hard to ignore a constantly offensive person in web discussions but it's surely worth trying it.

Jeff Ratcliff

Posts: 242
Nickname: jr1
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 23, 2007 11:37 AM

Reply

Developers as a group also raise families, have hobbies, go on vacation and do a myriad of other things. There's nothing special about developing and writing that makes them particularly incompatible.

On the other hand, it's appropriate to consider where an author "comes from" when evaluating their writing.

Consider software patterns. Many of them are based on the goal of optimizing long-term development by using abstractions to simply the maintenance and enhancements of applications. But what is the context under which this is the best solution? It works best in an environment where there are few short-term deadlines that might demand a quicker but less elegant solution. And who is most likely to minimize this short-term issue? Somebody that has never faced this issue or hasn't faced it in a long time.

Thus technical writers who haven't been practicing development in the real-world may have a bias toward long-term thinking and it's appropriate to consider that when weighing the conclusions they may come to.

James Watson

Posts: 2024
Nickname: watson
Registered: Sep, 2005

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 24, 2007 6:12 AM

Reply

> Yes, authors who aren't solely developers can write
> better about a language than those who are solely
> developers. And for the reason stated.

If you believe that the key to great software development is knowing the semantics and syntax of a given language, I guess I can see where you are coming from. But my personal experience is that this is not the most crucial aspect of superior development.

Sean Landis

Posts: 129
Nickname: seanl
Registered: Mar, 2002

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 24, 2007 6:56 AM

Reply

I think the situation is more complex. There are many examples of great books written by esteemed and experienced developers. There are also many great books written by folks with a more academic orientation. They know about what they write.

I am having a little trouble thinking of great technology books written by writers though.

The problem I have is that there are many many more examples of books that never should have been written and most of them are written by technologists. I am sure the motivations for these folk are numerous. Some may be passionate about the subject, some may wish to make a lot of money (not a good reason from what I hear), and others simply want the recognition and resume fodder.

I see a large number of consultants who cite books on their resumes. These self-promoting 'authors' seem to me to have a very poor track record; and that is often accompanied with a low skill level as well. Writing, good or bad, takes a lot of time and many consultants, especially mediocre ones, seem to have time to kill.

The reality is that writing a great book is hard and the vast majority of us cannot do it. It takes a lot of time, and most good technologists are busy with their day job. That said, I feel most really great technology books are written from a position of depth in the topic area.

Unfortunately, the number of strong technologists with time on their hands, that are also good writers (or at least enjoy the assistance necessary to write a great book) is even smaller.

Most technologist/writers seem to be trying to sell something: a technology, a company, themselves... In my mind, these folk are the poseurs.

Even books that should be written have a huge challenge. Most publishers will not invest the editorial assistance in low-return technology books, so many published books are decidedly amateurish. Self-published books may get no editorial review.

Then there's the biggest generator of crap technology books. Every hot new technology that comes along is followed by a herd of poorly written trash books that are trying to leverage market interest. In my 20 years in software, I see this getting worse every year.

Kay Schluehr

Posts: 302
Nickname: schluehk
Registered: Jan, 2005

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 24, 2007 8:44 AM

Reply

It takes a lot of time, and most good technologists are busy with their day job.

Is this specific to a mentality of self-exploitation and winner/loser categorization in the US? I never felt having no time for doing anything but working on my current project except for certain peak times that never lasted long ( usually between 2 days and 2 weeks ). When you say that a "good technologist" won't run in idle mode it sounds like ideology to me, not something that is factually true.

Alex Stojan

Posts: 95
Nickname: alexstojan
Registered: Jun, 2005

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 24, 2007 10:45 AM

Reply

> It takes a lot of time, and most good technologists are
> busy with their day job.
>
> Is this specific to a mentality of self-exploitation and
> winner/loser categorization in the US? I never felt having
> no time for doing anything but working on my current
> project except for certain peak times that never lasted
> long ( usually between 2 days and 2 weeks ).

Same here.

> When you say that a "good technologist" won't run in idle mode it sounds like ideology to me, not something that is factually true.

If someone considers working on a book being in "idle" mode, I would definitely disagree with that, but people have different ideas of "work". I think that writing a good book that can help thousands of people is a very noble work.

Sean Landis

Posts: 129
Nickname: seanl
Registered: Mar, 2002

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 24, 2007 12:48 PM

Reply

> When you say that a "good technologist" won't run in
> idle mode it sounds like ideology to me, not something
> that is factually true.

Not ideology, just generalization. Clearly there are exceptions because there are very busy people writing very good books. I was trying to make the point that there aren't a lot of people who can do that. Writing a really great book seems like a job in itself.

I've heard it said that if you want something done fast, give it to the busy person. I suppose that works well in some cases.

I'm still trying to think of a great technical book written by someone who isn't involved in technology. I am sure there must be some examples given all the books out there.

Even anthologies and compendiums seem to require a fairly high technical level to put together well.

Peter Hickman

Posts: 41
Nickname: peterhi
Registered: Mar, 2003

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 25, 2007 8:06 AM

Reply

Consider if Charles O' Nutter wrote a book on implementing dynamic languages on the JVM, would he suddenly become less of a programmer than if he didn't write it?

A patently absurd notion.

And such a book would be an interesting read, well to me at least.

Bill Pyne

Posts: 165
Nickname: billpyne
Registered: Jan, 2007

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 25, 2007 9:27 AM

Reply

> Is this specific to a mentality of self-exploitation and
> winner/loser categorization in the US?

Would you please explain this a little more? While I generally enjoy your posts, this one seems at odds with your normal commentary.

> I never felt having
> no time for doing anything but working on my current
> project except for certain peak times that never lasted
> long ( usually between 2 days and 2 weeks ). When you say
> that a "good technologist" won't run in idle mode it
> sounds like ideology to me, not something that is
> factually true.

Are you implying that it's acceptable to start your own writing project on your employer's time? I'm going to generalize that everyone takes time away from their employers during standard work hours; I'd be a hypocrite to claim I don't since I'm writing this post now. However, writing a book during non-peak times at work is nothing I would ever contemplate. "A good day's work for a good day's pay" is still a motto I believe in and I'd like to think most people believe the same.

Jeff Ratcliff

Posts: 242
Nickname: jr1
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 25, 2007 9:48 AM

Reply

> > Is this specific to a mentality of self-exploitation
> and
> > winner/loser categorization in the US?
>
> Would you please explain this a little more? While I
> generally enjoy your posts, this one seems at odds with
> your normal commentary.
>

I can't speak for Kay, but I think in the US there's sometimes a philosphy that says that you must constantly work beyond your normal hours to get the job done no matter what and your'e a loser if you don't. A good example would be the video game industry.

> > I never felt having
> > no time for doing anything but working on my current
> > project except for certain peak times that never lasted
> > long ( usually between 2 days and 2 weeks ). When you
> say
> > that a "good technologist" won't run in idle mode it
> > sounds like ideology to me, not something that is
> > factually true.
>
> Are you implying that it's acceptable to start your own
> writing project on your employer's time? I'm going to
> generalize that everyone takes time away from their
> employers during standard work hours; I'd be a hypocrite
> to claim I don't since I'm writing this post now. However,
> writing a book during non-peak times at work is nothing I
> would ever contemplate. "A good day's work for a good
> day's pay" is still a motto I believe in and I'd like to
> think most people believe the same.

Again, I can't speak for Kay, but I assumed he was saying that he rarely does company work on his time rather than saying he sometimes does his own projects on company time.

Guido van van Rossum

Posts: 359
Nickname: guido
Registered: Apr, 2003

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 25, 2007 11:36 AM

Reply

Right on. I find it incredibly hard to find time to write *about* Python, to the despair of various publishers over the years...

Gregg Irwin

Posts: 16
Nickname: greggirwin
Registered: Jan, 2004

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 25, 2007 12:02 PM

Reply

I'd say it's more true than not. People are citing the same few luminaries as examples, but they are the exception to the rule IMO. Of course there are authors that know their material inside out, but we can probably all agree that the shelves are littered with junk written by people who have little practical experience in the technology they're writing about.

It's hard to do both. Dan Appleman, of Desaware fame, has built great commercial products, and written great books about something other than what he built. Robert Glass is one of my favorite authors, but I don't think he writes much code, which is OK, because he's not writing about a specific technology.

Rene Clabaugh

Posts: 6
Nickname: abcdefghi
Registered: Oct, 2006

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 25, 2007 12:13 PM

Reply

Assumptions presented by the topic may be worth reviewing and clarifying to keep this blog on track.

1) Discussion has covered that successful author must have covered the playing field by some means; by experience and experise or by reading and judging a lot of code vs readablity or ratings.

To me, this limits authorable topics to those that can capture a reader's interest, offer understanding or offer other rewards.

Value is getting placed on the transfer of a commodity. Perhaps some inventions do not lend themselves to a mass consumption. Fewer readers would benefit. An execellent developer might not gain a large follwing. Surely there is place for authors across the spectrum from commodity to novelty?

2) Discussion is grappling with whether someone should author books or develop code. This implies that the written word requires a consuming rigour that distracts from the consuming rigour required for coding.

To me, this is compelling evidence that books and perhaps even comments are a difficult way to convey what code does. It sort of suggests that "readable" code could be a boondoggle as well, although this is off the topic, except that it enables less capable coders to become authors.

It seems like there needs to be discussion on how the discipline of authoring books overlaps with the discipline of developing code.

John Zabroski

Posts: 272
Nickname: zbo
Registered: Jan, 2007

Re: Are Authors Technological Poseurs?

Posted: Sep 30, 2007 7:04 PM

Reply

We shouldn't just read books by programmers, though.

When I read a book, I make sure I know the author's background. As examples: Consultants tend to address the business angle. Professors tend to address the theoretical angle.

I do agree that it stinks when an author writes a book with no credentials whatsoever. That is the book publisher's fault, though.

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