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Bill Venners: Another concern I had about Jini was testing, because the trend is over time, everything will become network-connected embedded devices. And we'll want all those devices to work together. In a world where everything is connected to everything, Jini kind of offers a way for things to work together at that level of interfaces instead of protocols.
The concern I have is that let's say I have a blender. I want my blender to work with all the clients that know about the well-known blender interface. I can't test my blender with all the clients, because there are too many of them, and I don't know what they are, and a lot of them don't exist yet. My service object is going to fly into these clients and is supposed to work with them.
So what has to happen is we have to agree on these semantics, the APIs.
James Gosling: Right. The API is a contract. And by God, you better follow it. And by God, you better write it down because your point about some of these clients haven't been invented yet, that's absolutely true. And that's the way you really want the universe to be. That you can define a blender that's going to be controlled by or interface to things that haven't even been invented yet.
Because if you have a universe where in order to work, you have to test that blender against everything that interfaces to it, then you do that testing, and then never again can anybody invent something that interfaces to a blender.
And that's kind of a way that things like Windows ended up getting stopped. And a lot of that has to do with things like, what is the API to Windows? And the answer is, nobody knows. In fact, even Microsoft doesn't know what the Windows API is. Because they publish an API, but lots of people sneak in through back doors. And so you go to any bookstore and you can find these books: "Undocumented Windows Secrets."
And those books are usually of the form, "If you get this handle back from so and so, then you cast it to an integer and you add 13, you'll find in bit three something that tells you this." Right? And of course the people who built the system, yeah, they might have that bit there, but that is a part of their internal implementation. They have no idea that people on the outside were using this.
So they know what pieces of the interface they specify to people on the outside. But because there isn't a really good, strong interface notion in C, people just sort of reach in through the back doors. And they do God knows what. And so when Microsoft goes to release a new version of Windows, what they essentially have to do is test everything. They take, I don't know how many thousands of applications that they run it against, they run them against Windows. And some of the ones that are the worst in terms of running through the back doors are the games.
The games seem to be just completely savage about doing whatever it takes to find whatever display chip you've got. Tweaking with the guts of the chips registers in parallel with the device driver. And that's kind of standard practice in the gaming world.
Bill Venners: They probably see themselves as programming the hardware.
James Gosling: Yeah, it gives them that performance, but holy mackerel, does it make life hard.
Bill Venners: What you're saying is because these APIs would be Java, they're object-oriented, you can make the implementation inaccessible to people from the outside. So they can't get that integer and tweak -- add 13 and tweak this bit, because it's part of the implementation.
James Gosling: Right. It was a very important property of interfaces that they are very strict. That wasn't just me deciding to be nasty. That was: the world is madness if the contracts aren't strict. Because then all of a sudden -- the whole notion of object-oriented programming falls apart if the interfaces aren't strict.
Because then all of a sudden you lose the ability to unplug this and plug that in. Because if you don't know what the shape of the plug is, how do you know it can plug in? And whether plugging in on this side or plugging in on that side, you just don't know.