Java Answers Forum - dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Articles |
News |
Weblogs |
Books |
Forums

Artima Forums | Articles | Weblogs | Java Answers | News

Sponsored Link •

Java Answers Forum
dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

26 replies on 2 pages. Most recent reply: Nov 28, 2002 2:14 AM by Bill Venners

Welcome Guest
Sign In

Back to Topic List

Reply to this Topic

Search Forum

Threaded View


Previous Topic		Next Topic

Flat View: This topic has 26 replies on 2 pages [ 1 2 | » ]

Anil Philip

Posts: 19
Nickname: anilphilip
Registered: Nov, 2002

dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 5, 2002 11:22 AM

Reply

Advertisement

It is shameful (or rather shameless) that there are so many homework requests in this newsgroup. There is no discussion of Java concepts and problems.
Or, alternately, can you open a new forum - Java Homework? you can even charge for membership to it! ;)
thanks,
Anil

Matt Gerrans

Posts: 1153
Nickname: matt
Registered: Feb, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 5, 2002 5:08 PM

Reply

In fact, I've discussed this issue with Bill. There was a partcularly ridiculous request just a few days back from some clown offering money to someone to help him write what sounded like a pretty big program and finish it that day before midnight.

I also exchanged posts with Charles Bell a while back, with the idea of creating a FAQ-like page that would have detailed answers (in some cases tutorials) to the most frequent questions. This way, instead of repeatedly answering the same questions, or telling people to STDFF (search the damned forum first), we could just say "check item 14 on the JAFFAQ" or something like that.

Probably many of the items in that list would end up just being homework solutions. People could go straight there, download the homework solutions they needed, print them out and hand them in. Then when it comes time for midterms, they can flunk out of school and we can add insult to injury by suing them them for copyright infringement! ;-)

I am somewhat equivocal on this; if people want to spend all their time and effort trying to get someone else to do their homework instead of learning the material themselves, they are just shooting themselves in the foot. Sooner or later, it will get to the point where they will have to learn something, change their major or drop out.

Except for extremely irrelevant or offensive material, I think this forum is essentially unmoderated, which is probably the way it will stay. However, your idea of having a separate homework solutions forum added might have some merit (I'll mention this thread to Bill and we'll see what he thinks).

twisty

Posts: 22
Nickname: twisty
Registered: Nov, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 5, 2002 8:38 PM

Reply

Having visited Artima.com and the forums on a number of occassions, I finally decided to join as there is a lot of really interesting material here. However, like Anil Philip, I agree that the homework peeps don't really add anything of value to the forums. I mean, the main reason most people join a programming forum is so that they can discuss relevant topics and discover answers to problems that they are having, but I get the impression that some of these people are more interested in just passing their programming class rather than learning anything about the language or how to use it.

Take for example the following thread:
http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=1&thread=2427

Its seems quite obvious that this fellow couldn't be bothered attempting any part of what is a really easy assignment.

Bill Venners

Posts: 2284
Nickname: bv
Registered: Jan, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 6, 2002 12:31 AM

Reply

> Except for extremely irrelevant or offensive material, I
> think this forum is essentially unmoderated, which is
> probably the way it will stay. However, your idea of
> having a separate homework solutions forum added might
> have some merit (I'll mention this thread to Bill and
> we'll see what he thinks).

I found this thread all by myself. Matt is correct in that this forum is unmoderated. The only moderated forum is new topic posts in the News & Ideas forum. Freedom of speech reigns here in Java Answers.

On the other hand, I have on rare occasions deleted posts after the fact. Now and then someone posts what basically amounts to forum spam--Make millions on ebay! Whiten your teeth! Grow Hair! Remove Hair! and so on--which I delete when I find it. I also occasionally search for naughty words and delete anything offensively rude. (I know it when I see it.) I also delete things that are completely off topic, such as requests for MP3 files. But frankly, all of these are pretty rare.

I have been very concerned lately with the recent offers of payment for getting someone to complete a homework assignment. I've considered deleting such posts, and may still. I'm discussing the problem with Daniel Steinberg, who was for many years a university professor. I am planning to eventually post something about academic honesty. In business, you buy software all the time if it makes sense. You hire people to help you do things. Basically, I would consider paying someone to write a program for you that you owe as homework to be on par with buying a paper from someone and turning it in as if you wrote it.

I think I probably turned in every programming assignment I had in college, because I like programming so much and couldn't get a date anyway. But in general, I was not so good at doing homework. But when I was unable to complete a homework assignment, I just turned in nothing. A lot of homeworks I never submitted. This hurt my grades, but at least I wasn't submitting someone else's work as my own.

I do think the Java Answers Forum is the right place for students to ask for help with programming problems. But I encourage students to not just post their programming assignment to the forum. Instead, first try to program it yourself and ask specific questions in the forum when you run into trouble. This will help you learn and give Matt fewer opportunities to lambast you with his rapier wit.

Especially, I encourage students to do their own work. When Daniel and I get some time to put our heads together, we'll post something about academic honesty.

Daniel Ray

Posts: 53
Nickname: budoray
Registered: Oct, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 6, 2002 8:35 AM

Reply

Well, I'm the guy who did the homework assignment for pay. I had to use a crappy api provided by the professor. It had methods like .. getString(String); to show a dialog box. In the end .. I wrote 1700 lines of code. I could clearly see why the girl needed help. $50 was not worth what I put into it, but it was something for my effort.

Now, I agree that stuff like this should be in a homework forum and would gladly help where possible. I really think that some people struggle to get started and some working code helps them get over that hurdle.

Anyhow, this was my confession and my offer to help with homework as I can.

Ray

Anil Philip

Posts: 19
Nickname: anilphilip
Registered: Nov, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 6, 2002 12:24 PM

Reply

Well, what about a separate Java Homework forum?

Eduardo

Posts: 21
Nickname: eduardo
Registered: Feb, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 6:04 AM

Reply

To separate the forum or not, it doesn't matter. The focus, maybe, should be some clear rules about money, "cheating", etc.
In my case, for example, I have a bachelor degree in business, but I'm currently doing a master of sciences, Information Systems. As I don't have the background in programming and it is essential to my course, I have to look for good alternatives as this forum. My objective is not to have my homework done, but to understand it. Several times I have problems with little tricks that experienced programmers know by heart, or sometimes, like right now, I have problems with the interpretation of the assignment itself, when thinking about translating that to Java.
But if this forum is not the proper place to find my answers and to develop myself, then I would be more than glad to have some suggestions about where I can have the help I need. That's okay, for me.

Charles Bell

Posts: 519
Nickname: charles
Registered: Feb, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 11:06 AM

Reply

There really is no easy answer.

Don't reply to things that you don't want to.

All a person can do is ask.

No one on any forum has to answer.

Starting flame wars accomplishes nothing.

I only make a reply when I have the time and feel up to it.

I don't ask anything for my replies.

The older you get, the less passionate all this really becomes.

Everybody takes advantage of me, especially my cat. I have scratch marks to prove it.

I wasn't born yesterday, it was over 49 years ago.

Some things are best left unanswered or unsaid. So let go of it or it will eat you alive. If not prozac works.

I taught Math classes in a college for several years. The students there were exactly the same. I teach operators at a very large nuclear power plant. They are the same here too, even the ones older than myself.

Smile a little, even though no one can see you through your monitor.

I'm relieved to read about all the same frustration that I feel too.

Chet Underwood, Esq.

Posts: 14
Nickname: chet
Registered: Mar, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 11:38 AM

Reply

> I teach operators at a very large nuclear power plant.
> They are the same here too, even the ones older than myself.

Yikes! Maybe that explains things like Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.

Somehow, we expect people in such lines of work would be a little more conscientious, but that is probably wishful thinking. When those guys cheat on their homework and don't really know the difference between one guage and another, the repercussions are a little more severe than a bad grade.

Charles Bell

Posts: 519
Nickname: charles
Registered: Feb, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 12:55 PM

Reply

Cheating does not happen very often in a commercial industry like the one I've been in for over twenty years. But it does happen and has happened.

The penalties in the nuclear industry are simple. You get fired.

In a professionally accredited training program, the program gets in all kinds of trouble that takes mega bucks to fix and everybody is affected. We have strict security controls for exams. I have a safe with a heavy duty combination lock on it.

The general education field is much different. They have their cheating incidents too.

Basically, people are people everywhere.

Anil Philip

Posts: 19
Nickname: anilphilip
Registered: Nov, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 3:04 PM

Reply

Bill/Charles,
It is frustrating to go through topic after topic of Homework requests in order to find real meat. What is happening here is cheating, plain and simple.

The reason I enrolled in artima.com was I had a Java problem and did a google search on the keywords.
I found a reply by Bill Venners to a similar question, that I thought was insightful.

So in short, I enrolled thinking I would LEARN something - ever heard of "iron sharpens iron"?

Well, perhaps should have just stuck to the good ol' forums at java.sun.com

hyderman

Posts: 11
Nickname: salem99
Registered: Oct, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 5:14 PM

Reply

what is this, if you don't like to help just ignor the post, a lot of people like to help and offer their personal time to help others . if it happen you dont like some one post get the hell out of his post and dont bug him.
i hope this is clear to ALL just dont reply if you dont like to help and let others help wether it is a homework or not.
GOT IT

Matt Gerrans

Posts: 1153
Nickname: matt
Registered: Feb, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 5:38 PM

Reply

I disagree with all of you! (as usual) ;-)

I occasionally enjoy the homework posts. For instance, when someone posts the old "I have this incredibly difficult technology problem to implement at work" followed by a brain-dead simple homework assignment like "Create a list of students, each one has a first name, a last name, ...", I like to enjoy roundly castigating them with a assortment of rebukes. Sometimes it is fun to also post an answer that does something more interesting than the homework assignment, as well. (That stars one a while back was kind of fun). Sometimes it is fun to post the answer in another language, like Python, C++, C#, etc.

However, I do think that it might be nice to have a separate forum for homework cheats, making it a little easier to separate the wheat from the chaff in the answers forum.

Bill Venners

Posts: 2284
Nickname: bv
Registered: Jan, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 7, 2002 9:41 PM

Reply

I'm not convinced a separate Java Homework forum would solve your problem of seeing to much homework help requests in Java Answers, because there is an established tradition of students hanging out in the Java Answers forum. People won't change their behavior just because a new forum is created.

What I'd really like to do is encourage more non-student programmers, those with jobs or contracts, to interact in Java Answers. According to the results of a demographic survey taken a year ago, about 10% of Artima.com visitors are students. The remainder are primarily employed programmers. If anyone has suggestions as to how to promote Java Answers to programmers with jobs, please post here. One thing I can do is run HTML ads promoting Java Answers as a way to get answers to your everyday programming questions. I'm not doing that right now, but I should be. So I will start soon.

As far as people "cheating" in here, I really want to remain very conservative about censorship. I prefer if students ask for help with understanding concepts and solving specific problems with their homework assignments, but I don't plan on censoring blatant requests to do homework. Blatant requests often get ignored, anyway, or are given scathing retorts from Matt. Rather than censoring homework requests, I'd rather try to define some guidelines for students seeking help. I'll publish this as a web page so that people can respond to blatant requests with a URL to the web page.

Dante T. Salvador

Posts: 19
Nickname: anteng
Registered: Nov, 2002

Re: dear Moderator. Please block homework requests

Posted: Nov 12, 2002 9:32 AM

Reply

i very sorry if i answered some homework here. i didn't know. homework forum is also an alternative, i also would like to suggest a pseudocoding forum or algorithm forum sort of.

i think, we can help these students to enhance their skill, we can even give them problem to solve at and make suggestions on their approach of solving it. this way they can learn the technique that we hopely to answer.

again sorry!!

dante salvador

Flat View: This topic has 26 replies on 2 pages [ 1 2 | » ]

Previous Topic

Next Topic

Sponsored Links

Copyright © 1996-2019 Artima, Inc. All Rights Reserved. - Privacy Policy - Terms of Use