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Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

104 replies on 7 pages. Most recent reply: Sep 28, 2008 10:31 PM by brianna americana

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Luis Gonzalez

Posts: 5
Nickname: neuruss
Registered: Jan, 2006

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Jan 31, 2006 7:55 AM

> Thanks for the award.
> Of course, it's easier to take it as a troll than to admit
> it's true.

I don't think you're a troll, but you are misinformed.
I doubt that you could have tested all the available solutions within a month of learning the language.
And the fact that these solutions are not widely known doesn't mean they are not good. If popularity was a sign of quality, we would all be using Visual Basic.

Bertrand Mansion

Posts: 5
Nickname: golgote
Registered: Jan, 2006

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Jan 31, 2006 8:23 AM

I admit I am probably misinformed. Still, I have looked at most of the frameworks presented here. Some in more details than others. I came to the conclusion I don't need a full featured framework, I prefer to use a small set of lightweight libraries that can work happily together.

My concern is not about the quality of all these "frameworks", they all look excellent and offer different and interesting approaches. But they are useless if you can't deploy/host them easily.

I have tried to find information on how to deploy a web application written in Python, but without much luck so far. There seem to be no common way to do this. Some seem to use fastcgi with lighttpd (like RoR), others use a proxy between apache and lighttpd, others recommend snakelets, flup, twisted,... Some even come with their own integrated http server.

While having a choice is great, as a Python noob I'd prefer some info on which way is proven to work for an average traffic site, without me having to check every solutions one by one. Most of you seem to be using Python for ages, someone should know about this ? I am not the only Python noob around, we are all looking for this kind of information.

Shannon -jj Behrens

Posts: 12
Nickname: jjinux
Registered: Aug, 2005

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Jan 31, 2006 8:52 AM

Bertrand, there are a lot of deployment options because there are a lot of use cases. My app is a Web UI for a very expensive appliance. We have a "absolutely no C listening on sockets" requirements, so we have a simple Python Web server. Others want to use Apache in some way. Zope/Plone has its own thing. Twisted is an asynchronous server framework that allows you to handle 1000s of simultaneous connections, something that Apache+PHP just can't do. A lot of these systems are application servers, so all the requests are running in the same application, something else that Apache+PHP can't do. Needs vary.

By the way, you may want to consider python-hosting.com.

Oh crud, I replied to the troll ;) /me hits himself ;)

Danny Ayers

Posts: 4
Nickname: danja
Registered: Oct, 2005

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Feb 1, 2006 1:27 AM

fyi, I wanted to build apps on top of mod_python, but found the interfaces that provided unintuitive. I looked around the existing frameworks and found them all rather overblown and needing considerable extra learning for what I needed. So I ended up writing a little bit of bridging code. Though designed before I'd seen web.py (I'm not sure that was even available when I was looking) the main part of my code - URI/HTTP method dispatching - came out looking very, very similar (though mine's mod_python-specific). I called it Pymplex, it's here:
http://pragmatron.org/docs/pymplex.html

Lennart Regebro

Posts: 5
Nickname: regebro
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Feb 1, 2006 9:35 AM

My comment became pretty long, so I made a blog out of it:

http://blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/lennart_regebro/2006_02_01_guido-webframeworks

Jon Perez

Posts: 1
Nickname: jonp
Registered: Feb, 2006

If you hate frameworks...

Posted: Feb 2, 2006 3:31 AM

You might want to check out Spyce instead. It is a very powerful server pages style (e.g. ala JSP/ASP/PHP) solution for Python.

Very simple to pick up and can run on top of modpython.

Now at v2.x, it's already been through many revisions and should be very mature already.

Scott Finnie

Posts: 1
Nickname: sfinnie
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Feb 4, 2006 2:34 PM

About a week late, which is fairly normal for me... But on the off chance you're still reading this:

wrt template engines, have you looked at stringTemplate? (http://www.stringtemplate.org). It's primarily java, but with a python port. I haven't tried either, but reading the overview (http://www.stringtemplate.org/about.html) resonated with one of my main gripes about template engines: too many of them seem to want to be obfuscated programming languages rather than a means to interpolate dynamic data into static text.

Sounds kinda pythonic - and not xml based :-)

Ron Phillips

Posts: 2
Nickname: paron
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Feb 6, 2006 6:50 AM

I think one real problem is that "Web" implies 'graphic', and Python is just not about 'graphic.' Python is all about making "the man behind the curtain" strong, smooth, and supple. It's not in the least about making the image of "the great and powerful OZ" more impressive.

Scan the tutor list archives, and you'll find one of the commonest noob questions is how to put any UI whatsoever on a Python app. And you'll also find that the noobies are appalled to learn that Python core has never integrated an "official" desktop UI syntax, let alone a graphic IDE, let alone a Web UI, let alone a graphic IDE for a Web UI.

But consider: the only difference between a "Web application" and any other application IS the graphic interface (presumably in the browser.) The rest is just Python.

When using Visual Studio, or Flash, or Dreamweaver, or any other language/IDE to produce graphic output in a browser, the conventional wisdom is to get the product looking more-or-less right, THEN worry about behavior. If you are going to have a Web framework that makes sense, it has to make graphic sense, and work in a graphically-oriented way, primarily.

One nice benefit: if you solve the Web presentation problem, you get the desktop presentation solution for free.

Mo Babaei

Posts: 1
Nickname: mfree
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Feb 7, 2006 6:55 AM

Hi,
Why don't you take a look at "clearsilver" ?
It seems to be good templating system....

Mo

Lennart Regebro

Posts: 5
Nickname: regebro
Registered: Feb, 2006

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Feb 10, 2006 5:22 AM

*and* it can be used with Zope3. ;)

http://faassen.n--tree.net/blog/view/weblog/2005/04/15/0

Jim Carroll

Posts: 7
Nickname: mrmaple
Registered: Jan, 2006

Which was chosen?

Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:11 AM

So Guido, what did you end up using?

I've been using a fun combination of wxPython + PyRO + SqlObject to do some things that I used to try to do with intranet web pages. The app-style is so much easier... it's like writing my own mini special-purpose web browser.

But I think people are curious what you ended up doing.

Thanks,
-Jim

Guido van van Rossum

Posts: 359
Nickname: guido
Registered: Apr, 2003

Re: Which was chosen?

Posted: Apr 21, 2006 3:46 AM

I'm using Django templates and am very happy with them. I've not had time to compare and contrast it to other frameworks, or even to try out other parts of Django. I do have to say that I am very happy with the way the Django project is being managed; they seem to really "get" open source community projects. I also like WSGI and Phillip Eby's wsgiref implementation, which has been made a part of Python 2.5.

I've decided not to officially endorse a particular web framework; it would be way too big a responsibility. I do recommend that web developers (I'm still not much of one) get together, share experiences, and ask the web framework developers to standardize low-level APIs in additionn to WSGI (PEP 333). Also, I recommend setting up a wiki page where web frameworks are compared and contrasted, as a service to prospective users.

Iwan Vosloo

Posts: 1
Nickname: iwan
Registered: Apr, 2006

Re: Which was chosen?

Posted: Apr 26, 2006 4:47 AM

> Also, I recommend setting up a wiki page
> where web frameworks are compared and contrasted, as a
> service to prospective users.

A while ago I did such a study of 80 frameworks (and related projects). The results have been massaged into a wiki at http://www.reahl.org/wfmwiki.

I would love to get feedback from people to know whether the approach taken is useful... and how to improve it.

Nicolas Echaniz

Posts: 1
Nickname: nicechaniz
Registered: Oct, 2007

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Oct 6, 2007 8:09 PM

Hi Guido and all,

I guess it may be a little bit late to add my suggestion now, but I'll do it anyway, in case it can help somebody else.

I've been using Python for web programming for more than seven years now. My first project was a web based instant messenger based on Medusa (ezmess.com still online); its vintage nowadays.

I have tried some frameworks and their templating systems but at my company we are now using an in-house tool for producing XForms interfaces, but that's another story.

What I'd like to point you at is PyPa; our templating solution. It's less than 300 lines of code :)

The main idea behind PyPa is to completely separate content from logic. To achieve this goal, templates define nesting blocks and variables that are processed using pure python.

It's so small that's it's worth a look

A sample template can be found at the end of pypa.py

the URL is:
https://gna.org/projects/pypa

source is available through SVN.
http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/pypa/trunk/

It can be easily coupled with feature rich frameworks.

Let me know if you find this useful.

NicoEchaniz
www.chobita.org

brianna americana

Posts: 1
Nickname: brianna102
Registered: Sep, 2008

Re: Please Teach me Web Frameworks for Python!

Posted: Sep 28, 2008 10:31 PM

Hello I am first time visiting to your foram , it is consisting a really good topic for discussion . I will be contact to this foram and will try to take part in the discussion.

-------

brianna

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