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by Jay Fields.
Original Post: Sacrificing some IDE capabilities
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When discussing adopting Clojure or JRuby there are often heated discussions concerning the pros and cons of working with a language that has less IDE support. This blog entry will focus on the common concerns I hear.
I've never met anyone who has mastered Ruby or Clojure and had the opinion that they are more productive in Java. I think that's the best "proof" that the pros outweigh the cons.*
Other than that, things get complicated. The problem is, I understand where reluctant adopters are coming from. But, I just don't see any way to convince them to make the leap.
Many Java programmers do a bit of Ruby or Clojure and make a determination. I think their concerns are inflated by 3 factors: api/library fear, shallow understanding of powerful language features, and inability to optimize problem resolution.
A common concern is that learning a new language requires learning new libraries. Even though Java's libraries are available in Clojure or JRuby, both languages still have their own apis/libs to learn. In Java, you often use auto-completion. In Ruby and Clojure some auto-completion is available; however, it's often suspect. Few people use a Java REPL, so they don't understand how helpful/powerful a REPL is. In Clojure and Ruby, the REPL is often the most effective way to learn new apis/tools. Since most Java developers haven't experienced the value of the REPL, they exaggerate the overhead of learning apis/libs.
Writing idiomatic Java using Ruby or Clojure will produce painful and likely unmaintainable code. Writing idiomatic Ruby and Clojure often require understanding the powerful aspects of a language (metaprogramming, method_missing, macros, duck-typing). Understanding those aspects of a language can greatly change the design of a system. The result of mastering language features is often concise and significantly more maintainable code. However, if you aren't able to see the concise/maintainable version, you will picture a design that may likely be hard to manipulate without IDE support. Enter unnecessary concern and doubt.
Lastly, when things go wrong you need to know how to fix them. Fixing issues is often a mix of tweaking the language and mixing in a few tools. In Java it's often Ignore the noise in the stacktrace, Click a few links and open a few files, Drop in some break points or print lines or change a few tests. Getting to the source of the problem efficiently requires an IDE. In Clojure and Ruby I have those tools (since I do my Clojure and Ruby in IntelliJ), but I also have the REPLs. I know what noise to ignore. Even without those tools (when I used TextMate for Ruby), I know what patterns generally represent what issues. I can see the signal in the noise, and I have an additional tool (the REPL) to help me determine what is signal and what is noise.
However, if you don't know what is noise and what is signal, and (once again) you don't understand the value of a REPL then you exaggerate the cost of problem resolution.
Cosmin Stejerean recently mentioned "To me good IDE support for Clojure is very much like using training wheels on a bicycle."
That's almost true. I'll freely admit that I'd love some free refactoring. It would make me more productive. However, I'm already more productive so it's icing on the cake, not a reason to stop me from using the language.
Unfortunately, those training wheels are very much a deal-breaker to conservative adopters.
* I have recently heard of a few projects starting as Python and switching to Java, but I haven't ever done any Python, so I wont speculate as to why that happened.
The whole "you don't need the fancy features that the Java IDEs have in Ruby, Clojure....insert dynamic language here" has been given hundreds of times.
The ruby folks were doing this years ago, when they didn't have any IDE support. Now they just say take your pick.
A recent clojure poll had great IDE support as what they would like the most in the clojure ecosystem.
The whole argument is B.S. Slime is an IDE environment for CL. Yeah, I can program clojure in notepad, but I don't want to.
The argument failed back then, and still fails today.
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